I wonder how often the oldest player in the NBA All-Star Game wins the MVP award?
I could look it up.
I bet you it’s a pretty small number.
As are most categories when it comes to LeBron Raymone James – the number of other players who match his iconic skill-set are as rare as the Arkenstone of Thrain (there’s only one of those).
To cut to the chase (and why not?), let’s go there: LeBron versus Michael.
Who really IS the true GOAT?
To make it simple, here is Michael’s case: 6-0
And here is LeBron’s: Better statistically in every other category (because points will go to James soon enough, too).
LeBron already – and as we can see, he’s not close to done yet – leads Michael in total assists and rebounds. And, unbelievably, The King is gonna get MJ in points, too (he could even pass him next season).
LeBron’s career averages are 27.1 / 7.3 / 7.1., which translates to over one more rebound per game than Michael, and almost two additional assists.
He also blocks more shots per game, and makes more 3-pointers.
If Bron Bron goes to the Finals again this year (says here: he will), that’s eight in a row… and his record is 3-5. Which means: Three rings. That’s not an insignificant number.
Michael scored more per game, has more steals (although LBJ is currently 19th all-time and climbing), and made more free throws (although, again, James is currently 10th all-time, and could pass Michael next season). MJ also has an NBA Defensive POY award (that’s savage, especially for a guard).
So, let’s get real, we’re debating a plethora of riches here. It’s like Brady and Montana, Bonds and Mays… It’s either one guy, or the other. For greatest player of all time.
Sure, cases could be made for Kareem, or Wilt, or even Magic (my all-time favorite player); but when all is said and done, and if people are really getting honest – it’s always (and only) gonna be a debate between these two superheroes.
I grew up watching Michael DESTROY the 90s. Literally UNbeatable, once he finally got beyond the Bad Boys of Detroit, and Scottie & Phil joined the show.
Even including Russell, and a couple others, I’d say Michael Jordan is the greatest scorer and winner of all time.
And this statement right here MORE THAN qualifies Michael to that – cue Ludacris – Number One Spot.
It’s a more than legit claim. I mean, it’s Michael fvcking Jordan.
That being said… I’m coming, and have been moving this way over the past several years, to see the boy from Akron as the guy who is truly gonna end up w the GOAT moniker (when he finally hangs ’em up).
Why?
Namely… because he’s gonna top Michael – as stated above – in most every significant statistical category (even points – which is what Jordan is known for). And… he has three rings.
If LBJ “only” had one. Or, even “just” two… Maybe you still look at this area as a tad troublesome. But LeBron has three. And that puts him in a pretty elite class, right there, for winning championships.
His five “losses” are offset, to me, by his seven (probably eight) Finals appearances in a row. And averaging a triple double in one Series-Finals loss. And leading all players in every significant statistical category in another entire postseason.
Michael was FREAKING amazing.
And if Michael truly IS the goat, than LeBron is 1-A (and vice versa).
But – gun to head? – I give the edge to LeBron. Because he is BOTH Magic and Michael. And Michael, well – he’s “just” Michael, haha.
Long live The King.
(and I’m saying all this as a Warriors fan!)
Peace.
What Lebron is doing is truly amazing.He deserves a ton of credit. I like how despite all the criticism and haters he keeps doing his thing and tearring down records. He has finally proven that he is now a clutch player. But he is not better than MJ.
Quite simply, with more time in the league he has less MVPs,less rings,worse record in the finals,his peak was a little bit lower than MJ interns ppg and PER. He has less steals.
It’s true that he is perhaps a better all around player in terms of passing and rebounding. He is like a Magic Johnson with an awesome scoring ability. The people that favor Lebron in these discussions argue that by the end of his career he will have surpassed Jordan in every statistical category. Yes that’s because of longevity he s already played more games than Jordan and has probably another 5 years to go so of course he will surpass him in points. Kobe Bryant surpassed MJ in the all time scoring list,does that mean he was a better scorer? No because it took him about 3 or 4 more seasons to get there.
Lebron is fenomenal and has nothing to prove to the world in terms of being in the Mount Rushmore of all time greatWhat Lebron is doing is truly amazing.He deserves a ton of credit. I like how despite all the criticism and haters he keeps doing his thing and tearring down records. He has finally proven that he is now a clutch player. But he is not better than MJ.
Quite simply, with more time in the league he has less MVPs,less rings,worse record in the finals,his peak was a little bit lower than MJ interns ppg and PER. He has less steals.
It’s true that he is perhaps a better all around player in terms of passing and rebounding. He is like a Magic Johnson with an awesome scoring ability. The people that favor Lebron in these discussions argue that by the end of his careers but he is chasing the GOAT then he still has a quite a bit more to accomplish.
Great points… Can’t really argue w many of them… But if you’re gonna use stats (higher points per game) and records (MVPs, Finals record) to make your case, the fact that LeBron AVERAGES more than Michael in most every basketball category – except PPG – must matter too. He’s a better passer, a better rebounder, a better 3-point shooter, a more accurate shooter, he’s bigger, stronger, can adapt to different coaches and players (Michael had same coach and same “Robin” his entire career), and isn’t slowing down. Fully agree that longevity totals shouldn’t override or obscure AVERAGES totals… but they also do not mean zero (they reveal endurance and strength, so even if they don’t mean as much as “Averages”, they’re still a mark in his favor)… Also, if LeBron “only” had one ring, or even “just two” – then this debate wouldn’t be as close. But he has THREE. Not as many as Michael, but still – a very high number (especially when compared to all other players). I don’t consider Billy Russell better than Michael – and he has almost double as many rings as MJ. Titles are HUGELY important, there’s no doubt about it, but to me they are only one factor (one important factor, of many other factors)… But, in the end, both of these players are SO amazingly great – it really could be either one who is the GOAT. For ppl who wanna say it’s Michael, I can’t really dispute that. Bc there’s a great case for him to be the greatest, as you’ve laid out very well… Good discussion!
Whether he’s 1, or 1A, can we just agree to never, ever call him Bron-Bron again?
Hahahahahaha…!
Your points are well taken, good sir. Michael as the GOAT is never gonna be a bad call. Ever… However, the fact that LeBron AVERAGES (not “merely” totals) a full TWO assists (and ONE rebound) MORE than Michael, is pretty huge in my book (especially the dimes). It means – in STARK/CLEAR terms – the LeBron is a better passer than MJ (quite a bit better, actually). He’s also a superior rebounder. He also is a better 3-point shooter than Michael. And a superior shot-blocker. And, again, not just in totals… ie, LeBron AVERAGES more assists, rebounds, 3-pointers and blocks per game than Jordan. Thus, when they both step on the court together, the ONLY thing that Michael does “better” that LeBron – is score (and, get steals). And LeBron is “that far” behind him in either of those categories… LeBron has taken three “different teams/players/coaches” to the Finals (first Cleveland team, Miami run, current LBJ run). Michael never ever won a championship w out Scottie Pippen. Or Phil Jackson. Also, Michael played w one of the TOP 50 players of all-time in Scottie Pippen. LeBron’s two “best” teammates have been Wade and Kyrie (are either of them clearly better than Scottie?)… To be clear, this is not about throwing shade at Michael. He’s either THE goat, or the 1-A. He’s a god of the NBA, you will get no argument here. The greatest scorer in the game. Ever… But – LeBron is coming (and has been coming) for some time now. And, once he finally DOES lace them up – I think this picture might look a little different. Even for you.
As publisher of Popwell, I am obliged to put forth that the opinions expressed in the above piece do not reflect the views of management. I personally find it ludicrous to compare LeBron and Michael, certainly not if you’re going to base the discussion on statistics. Yes, LeBron is going to pass Jordan in all of these total career categories, but let’s not forget that Michael spent three years at UNC and took another couple off in the prime of his career. Had Jordan come straight out of high school and played straight through, LeBron wouldn’t be close to his totals yet. The oft-ballyhooed seven straight Finals appearances are mostly due to an incredibly weak and top-heavy Eastern Conference during most of LeBron’s career. The Cavs and Heat usually never played more than one series (if that!) against a team that could hope to challenge them each year. Meanwhile, Jordan’s Bulls had to fight past some great Pistons, Knicks, and Magic squads to even reach the Finals every year. Oh, and then they never lost an NBA Finals, which puts Jordan’s winning percentage miles ahead of LeBron’s. On a final note, I’d like to add that Michael Jordan was the epitome of a player who made everyone around him better. Most of his teammates had their best seasons while playing alongside Jordan. LeBron, on the other hand, dominates the ball and has spent his career relying so heavily on isolation sets that his teammates always tend to take a step back when they are on his team. Was Dwyane Wade better before or after LeBron joined him? What about Chris Bosh? Kevin Love? Isaiah Thomas? How much better does Kyrie seem now that he’s not playing with James? LeBron James is an incredible player, but he’s hardly the greatest of all time.
One must quarrel with some of Popwell’s arguments here. ‘’The epitome of a player who made everyone around him better’’ is a description of Magic, not Jordan, who was more like ‘’the epitome of a ball hog’’ before Tex Winter’s triangle offense came along (which Jordan famously resisted). It was that brilliant offensive system that allowed so many average players to flourish. (I don’t remember Jordan making any of his 2002-03 Wizards teammates better.) With his preternatural passing skills, LeBron DOES make his teammates better (he’s done a lot for Tristan Thompson, for instance). I wouldn’t say Bosh or Wade were better before they joined LeBron – they both deferred their games by choice to win more rings, and that worked out pretty well. Kyrie Irving isn’t a better player in Boston, he’s just getting more shots – he was pretty good in Cleveland, too, you know. Secondly, Jordan could not have come straight to the NBA from high school because he wasn’t that great at age 18; LeBron was. Third, seven straight trips to the Finals should have taken an enormous toll on LeBron’s body and mind by now, yet he’s as dominant as ever. I’ll say this for Jordan – best clutch player ever, and his perfect record in the Finals speaks for itself. And yes, there were one or two years (2010-11) when LeBron underperformed in critical moments, a failing we never saw from Jordan. But I still vote for LeBron as the greater overall player. Both are all-time greats on defense, but LeBron’s superior size and strength make him more versatile on that end. Offensively, he’s a better rebounder and much, MUCH better passer, and is a more imposing physical force on both ends.
Still not convinced? Throw on “Space Jam’’ and “Trainwreck’’ and get back to me.
DW… well said. I can’t argue w much anything you’ve laid down. It’s truly amazing that we can now SERIOUSLY have this conversation, when only several years ago – and STILL in some places (cough, Kobe/Laker-fans) – quite a few ppl wouldn’t even put LeBron in their Top 5 (and “barely” in their Top 10). I’m really glad that this <^ part of the conversation is now moot, bc that NEVER made sense to me (especially AFTER LBJ's first Ring), to not put LeBron in the convo for one of the greatest ever… He averages (AVERAGES mind you), over SEVEN rebounds and SEVEN assists PER game. That's ABSOLUTELY nuts. While scoring ("supposedly" his problem) over TWENTY SEVEN a game… Those are gigantic numbers. As stated, LeBron is Michael AND Magic. That combination spell gee oh ay tee, imho.